There's more. I heard from Lili Singer, horticulture journalist and expert. She once had a KCRW radio show I used to listen to regularly when I drove to work (nowadays I just walk to my office/dining room to work, and I only listen to the radio briefly during the commute. I leave dust-bunny sock-prints, not carbon prints). In any case, Lili Singer emailed me about lupines and the troubles I had with them in my own yard: